I thought that some of the responses to questions might make for some interesting reading. I’ve truncated the names to not identify people, but I think leaving the questions as written is useful to share some insights on how information about climate change is being received by some members of the public. Enjoy. I hope my replies are positive and helpful. I’ve re-read them and edited them for clarity and completeness (so they may not be verbatim)

These comments were all in response to a post about the Abby Fair Share project https://abbyfairshare.org/

Tony

Is there a lawsuit against the EV industry and battery manufacturers for their child exploitation in mining and environmental mess they produce? I’m guess the climate change crazies believe they are still the answer so probably not.

Fraser Valley Climate Action
There is no excuse for child exploitation.
We don’t have any special knowledge about litigation in the industry.

I suspect you are referring to the mining of cobalt which is primarily originating in the Democratic Republic of Congo in Africa.
A significant portion of the mining in the DRC is done through artisanal and small-scale mining (ASM), which raises concerns about labor conditions, child labor, and environmental impacts.
Yes I don’t think you would find any sane person arguing that human rights abuses are OK. It isn’t all or nothing. We need cleaner technologies and we need them done right in a way that doesn’t hurt people.

Everyone with a cell phone is part of that system because the battery in their cell phone and their laptop uses the same minerals.

But what many people don’t know is that cobalt is used in the refining process for fossil fuels.

“cobalt is used in certain processes related to fossil fuel production, specifically in refining crude oil. The primary role of cobalt in fossil fuel processing is as a catalyst in hydro processing, which includes hydrodesulfurization, hydrocracking, and hydrotreating. These processes are critical for producing cleaner fuels and removing impurities like sulfur, nitrogen, and metals from crude oil and its derivatives.”

So I don’t think you commented to make the point that people using oil and gas were also complicit in child labour abuses.
It isn’t a case of “EVs bad, Gas cars good. There is more information to consider here.

Thanks for raising this question so we could discuss it.
You may be happy to learn that investor pressure has been improving the ethics of the supply chain for EV batteries. Also the chemistry of EV batteries has been changing lately with the increasing popularity of LFP Lithium Iron Phosphate.
CATL which is the largest manufacturer of batteries in the world is suggesting that LFP is the only technology they plan to continue developing.

I’m not sure about the chemistry of all EVs, but I know that any of the Teslas that aren’t designated “long range” have LFP batteries.
So this pretty much eliminates the child labour and cobalt from the supply chain, making the EV batteries significantly more ethical.

I learned recently that Teslas (built in North America Freemont/Nevada/Austin) are the most “american” cars, with more components sourced in North America than any other cars on the market. (this helps by making sure that North American labour rules cover those domestic components.

Please do stay and interact if you are interested in learning and contributing.


Chris

So riddle me this: If climate change is humanity’s fault, why did the ice sheets melt 10000 years ago? I’ll wait…


Fraser Valley Climate Action
Hi Chris, not a bad question.

In my experience there are 2 kinds of questions.

1. seeking an honest answer

2. not seeking an honest answer.

One might also ask. Why has the rising level of the oceans only recently begun accelerating

Or, why has Greenland suddenly started melting.

Those questions would relate more directly to the situation before us.

Myself I don’t understand the history of glacial advance and retreat, but I would take that as the humility of me not having an answer for everything rather than confirmation people aren’t causing climate change.

In Abbotsford we have a large glacial erratic behind Seven Oaks Shopping mall that was dropped by the retreating glaciers. Its real

Please do stay and interact if you are interested in learning and contributing.


Linda

Let me know how warm you are the next time electricity goes out.


Fraser Valley Climate Action

Linda,
The last 18 years we’ve been heating without burning polluting fossil fuels. We’ve been fine thanks. Same goes for the EVs They are full and work great.

The point is that YOU are needing to pay more in tax to clean up this mess made by big oil and gas. (read the website if you get a chance.)


James

All of us as customers already pay and would simply pay more. All this would do is increase our cost of living. 🤦‍♂️

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea is a moron and doesn’t understand how the economy works, as the increased cost would be passed on to the consumer, after marking it up. 🙄


Fraser Valley Climate Action
You are highlighting a truth about oil and gas pricing.
The artificially low price of oil and gas relies on externalizing the real costs.
The examples are common so I’ll not make a full list but abandoned wells for one. The cleanup falls to the government (that is your tax dollars) So you end up paying for the cleanup of the abandoned wells). The oil company conveniently externalized that cost by just not building the full lifecycle price into their product.

So if the oil and gas companies had to raise their prices because they had to account for the full lifecycle cost it would raise the prices Yes. And I think people would be less likely to purchase oil and gas. Yes they would find oil and gas less affordable. (because it is).

Right now oil and gas is getting all these subsidies and tax breaks and bailouts. From the 35Billion pipeline to grants to research CCS to abandoned well cleanups. oil and gas is heavily subsidized. (by us as taxpayer).

BUT oil and gas has those huge profits…
This whole Abby Fair share project it to make it so that you don’t pay their share of the climate costs. (it makes your life more affordable by ensuring the profit taking is reduced and your taxes are reduced).

Let’s not “name call” If you’d like to contribute in a constructive way and are interested in learning more please stick around.



Cliff

This is stupid climate change?? You mean climate cycle. We create less than 5% of the world’s carbon and have the trees to clean 40% of the carbon. Digging enough lithium for a car creates way more carbon than oil and gas. Wake up people it’s a tax grab and nothing more

Fraser Valley Climate Action
Lots of statements there.

You are right if you are suggesting that the manufacture of an EV produces more carbon than the manufacture of a gas car.
And if you never planned to drive them and kept them in a glass case or something the gas car would be the winner.

But most of the pollution from a car’s lifecycle is from the fossil fuels it burns after manufacture. (of course vehicle size/battery size and driving conditions will vary).

But on average after both vehicles have driven 17,000,km, in terms of carbon the two cars have now broken even. After 17K The EV emits no more pollution from fuel. (in BC our electricity is about 97% renewable).

So if you plan to drive a vehicle more than 17,000 km the EV would be a better choice. But that really isn’t the topic of this post.

Tax grab? also not really the topic of this post unless you mean that as a citizen you will receive fewer services for your taxes because oil and gas are getting a free ride on taxpayer funded subsidies. There is a lot to dig into for those who have the patience.

Be well. If you want to learn more and would like to contribute to the discussion in a civil manner you are welcome to stay.



I didn’t post everything of course.
But the number of ignorant rude people who feel it is their right to name call and generally be awful is pretty bad.
Imagine taking your time and energy and pouring that out in a public forum to degrade someone else or someone else’s beliefs.

Its the reason we mostly abandoned Twitter/X this last year as the platform became incredibly toxic (and manipulated by bots pretending to be people)

Facebook sadly seems to be heading the same direction with their recent post about suspending their fact-checking department.

What is it with Billionaires talking about free speech and then creating a haven for hate and russian bot farms.
Firing all the safety people who protect the vulnerable from the hate…

So far BlueSky has served us well.
Feel free to follow us.

Bluesky has a culture of inst-banning trolls.
It makes for a much more positive place to interact.

After these Facebook comments I think I’ll go take a shower. yuck.

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